HMS ULYSSES collision SS ELLERIC

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E28
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HMS ULYSSES collision SS ELLERIC

Post by E28 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:50 pm

The loss of the RN modified R class destroyer Ulysses on 29 Oct 1918.

I hope to use this collision as an illustration to all just how the facts that have been published by many learned and leading authorities, and subsequently copied by everyone else, will lead you to a very dead end.
If you attempt to garner further info from what you read on this incident, you will go absolutely no where.

And before the next episode, there is a major stumbling block that needs negotiating.
Last edited by E28 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HMS ULYSSES collision 29 Oct 1918.

Post by E28 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:32 pm

Rant over, let us look at the evidence.
All the published sources clearly state she collided with a vessel named as the steam ship Ellerie.
Whilst attempting to learn more of this unfortunate episode, i needed to learn more of this ship Ellerie which apparently was none the worse for the encounter, somewhere on the Clyde or its environs.

Ellerie...no such ship could be found, Lloyds, everywhere.
It transpires that all these years it has probably been a simple gramatical error.

Our ship Ellerie is in fact...
...Elleric, ending with a c, not an e.
She is ON 106084 of 1897.

In fact,all those interested in the Bank line and Andrew Weir may be familiar with Elleric, one of their earlier ships.
We have a thread on them elsewhere on this forum, and published books too, but i have learnt quite a bit about this ship.
Including a picture, not a photo, of her in 1904.
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Re: HMS ULYSSES collision 29 Oct 1918.

Post by Magoonigal » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:10 am

For the record.......

Elleric was sold to Chr Salvesen and Co Leith in 1916 then resold the same year to Lowlands Steam Shipping Co Ltd (J Crass and Co, Managers) Newcastle upon Tyne.
Wartime restrictions prevented her change of name until 1919 when she was renamed LOWLANDS.

Scrapped Wards, Preston March 1926.

I notice Edgar March avoids the problem by saying she was sunk in collision with a Merchantman in the Firth of Clyde on the 29th October 1918.

Even Larne has Ellerie and I though he took his information from Lloyds, however his references are Colledge and Clyde Shipwrecks by Moir and Crawford. Colledge is good but it does contain the odd mistake.
Bearing in mind, most records for the 1st War were written in Long hand it would be very easy to confuse a c and an e..

As well, Ellerie looks right, Elleric dos'nt.....

Good bit of Detective work to find the right ship though Sean.
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E28
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Re: HMS ULYSSES collision 29 Oct 1918.

Post by E28 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:53 pm

Elleric.
Steamship.
Built by Russell and Co, Port Glasgow.
Yard no 404
Launched 10 May 1897
ON 106084
Signal letters P.R.Q.V. once fitted with radio communications
Tramp steam ship
339'5" x 46' x 25'8"
2305 net, 3550 gross.
Machinery Rankin & Blackmore, Eagle foundry, Baker St, Greenock.

Owned by the 1 ship company bearing her name until 1905 when Bank line ltd was registered, then owned and managed by them. This constituted The Steamship 'Elleric' Co, 94 Hope Street, Glasgow under the auspices of Andrew Weir & Company.

Elleric was to see many years of good fortune upon the seven seas, and although referred to as a tramp steam ship, this was a colloquialism in vogue at the turn of the 20th Century generally reserved for coastal steam ships.

Elleric was not a coastal ship, making frequent forays to Australia and the USA with a multitude of cargoes.
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Re: HMS ULYSSES collision 29 Oct 1918.

Post by E28 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:59 pm

Some curiosity has been excited as to the name Gymeric, and there has been various speculations to its origin and meaning. The vessel belongs to Andrew Weir & Co, Glasgow & Middlesborough, who have a large fleet and appear to have adopted the termination "eric" as a distinguishing mark for their steamers, and to be steadily working through the alphabet.
Thus we have Boveric, Comeric, Duneric, ELLERIC, Floreric, Gymeric & Homeric.
In due time they will, no doubt, get down to X and Y, but even then their ingenuity will probably be equal to coining words to suit.

This observation was from April 1900.

"Eric" did indeed duly do the alphabet, pretty much.
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Re: HMS ULYSSES collision 29 Oct 1918.

Post by E28 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:26 pm

Ref your post 3 here Paul.
A belated reply in that Edgar March and his book on RN destroyers is scarcely worth the paper, if at all.
If you have a copy, bin it or use it to start the BBQ.
Useful for some of its photos, but it was of its time, like the contents.

In fact the Ulysses Elleric collision is more intriguing in that Elleric is simply referred to as a collier at the time and the position of this incident went unrecorded, apparently.

Some even claim Ulysses was salvaged post war.
She remains undisturbed and unidentified to his day. Quite rare in fact for the general location.
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Re: HMS ULYSSES collision 29 Oct 1918.

Post by Magoonigal » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:49 pm

Agree, Useful info and Line drawings but nothing on the "History".

You do have to get your information from a variety of sources.

What do you know about the Mauretania being called Tuberose???

The background is when she was bring Troops to the UK and Europe towards the end of WW1. Mauretanian was never OFFICIALLY renamed but I think the Admiralty used the name Tuberose to fool the enemy.
At the time there was officially a Q-Ship called Tuberose.
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E28
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Re: HMS ULYSSES collision 29 Oct 1918.

Post by E28 » Tue May 01, 2012 11:50 pm

Yes Paul, the Mauretania - Tuberose naming has been debated for many a decade.
Including her, that is, the Mauretania, 3 ships under Admiralty control carried the name in WW1.
So, let us start a new thread on Tuberose and see how things pan out.
Pretty straightforward me thinks.
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