Question - identify the Port

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:48 pm

Trying to identify a discharge port described in a Seaman's Discharge Book (1940s - 1950s) as D.R.S.T.

Anyone have any ideas, please, what this abbreviation stands for?
Angus Mac Kinnon

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Malim Sahib
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Malim Sahib » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:07 pm

Angus,
It's stumped me, is it in the port of discharge column itself or in the voyage description part?
Being an abbreviation suggests it may refer to the voyage 'ending' (for the person concerned) but not in the normal manner, i.e. signed off in a UK port in the presence of a proper officer etc.
The type of vessel/voyage may provide a clue.
Regards,

Jim

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:26 pm

Well, if it has stumped you, Jim, what chance did I ever have? :lol:

It appears in the column that denotes the date and discharge port of the individual, e.g. date signed off followed by the port, e.g. Barry, Liverpool, Londonderry, Llanddulas, or whatever. All recognisable ports - except for this D.R.S.T.

Could it be effectively 'discharged at sea' for whatever reason, with no shipping officer present to record/stamp the Book?

(Enjoying your exchanges elsewhere re Crow/Union/etc - agree totally with your sentiments)

N.B.
This abbreviation occurs in two separate places (under the Date & Place of Engagement/Discharge column). In one instance one days after signing off/at D.S.R.T. he signed on in Greenock. In another instance four days after signing off/at D.S.R.T. he signed on at Blyth.

(Voyages mainly Home Trade, with a minimum Foreign)
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by yorkieman » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:30 am

Found this, Angus, but doubt it helps unless he was abandoned on Dartmoor :)
http://acronymsandslang.com/meaning-of/DSRT.html
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Colin Campbell
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Colin Campbell » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:19 am

Suggest "Declined to Report - Service terminated" Colin

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:22 am

Colin Campbell wrote:Suggest "Declined to Report - Service terminated" Colin
It was something like that I had in mind, Colin, but this doesn't fit other factors, e.g. his immediate reappointment and signing on to the following ship, and your idea would surely read DRST rather than DSRT?
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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:25 am

yorkieman wrote:Found this, Angus, but doubt it helps unless he was abandoned on Dartmoor :)
http://acronymsandslang.com/meaning-of/DSRT.html

Scottish seafaring personnel did not end up in places like Dartmoor, they ended up before His/Her Majesty getting gongs for superb seamanship and high integrity - wanna make somefin of it, like ? :lol:
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Colin Campbell
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Colin Campbell » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:37 am

You changing your mind again.........You started of with DRST
Still think seafarer signed on..changed his mind/sacked? ....and didnt ship out. Book sent back to "Pool" and he later shipped out.
What ship DRST against and what ship next trip.....might throw some light of events.

Mind I worked on the Glasgow "Pool" at one time, after the demise of B&L. Jobs were hard to find !!! Colin

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Malim Sahib
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Malim Sahib » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:08 am

Colin Campbell wrote:You changing your mind again.........You started of with DRST
Still think seafarer signed on..changed his mind/sacked? ....and didnt ship out. Book sent back to "Pool" and he later shipped out.
What ship DRST against and what ship next trip.....might throw some light of events.

Mind I worked on the Glasgow "Pool" at one time, after the demise of B&L. Jobs were hard to find !!! Colin
Colin,
Would such an additional notation be needed? Discharge books of that time would have had the ability/conduct columns immediately between the description of voyage and the signature section, this of course being where the Master would stamp in VG/G/DR, or even the dreaded double DR.
Jumping ship/going adrift was/is usually notated VNC in the port of discharge column - VNC standing for Voyage Not Completed.
Regards,

Jim

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davidwat
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by davidwat » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:19 pm

Angus, have looked through all my remaining documents, going back to the 50's, but can find no reference to this abbreviation at all. SORRY.
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Malim Sahib
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Malim Sahib » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:40 pm

Whilst undergoing a vicious assault courtesy of my dentist this morning, it did strike me that bearing in mind the home trade aspect, could DRST have something to do with sea trials? Something along the lines of Discharged or Dockyard 'something' sea trials?
Regards,

Jim

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:39 pm

Malim Sahib wrote:Whilst undergoing a vicious assault courtesy of my dentist this morning, it did strike me that bearing in mind the home trade aspect, could DRST have something to do with sea trials? Something along the lines of Discharged or Dockyard 'something' sea trials?

Jim - reminds me of a cartoon of many years ago (somewhat crude mind you) whereby there's this dentist brandishing some highly chromed but vicious-looking instruments, then there's the victim-to-be, languishing in the chair, and he has a grip of the concerned dental practitioner in a very personal and sensitive place and is saying to him .... "now, we are not going to hurt each other, are we?"

Who knows, Jim? With the wealth of experienced and knowledgeable talent who have opined to date, it doesn't augur well that we appear no closer to resolving the mystery. As the handwriting on these CRS 10 Forms is sometime very poor, and done in pencil, I wonder if I am reading it incorrectly? I don't think so, but when these oldie types such as El Capitano dust down the books they had when they first sailed on the 2-3 year tramping voyages of the Barques cannot elucidate further on the acronym, it kind of discourages one on ever getting to the bottom of it .... :cry:

If I find out any more be sure I'll let you know, and thanks for your interest and help,

Angus
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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:45 pm

davidwat wrote:Angus, have looked through all my remaining documents, going back to the 50's, but can find no reference to this abbreviation at all. SORRY.
Appreciate you taking the trouble to look, David, thanks. Mystery right enough. Have another couple of avenues to pursue before I give up. Will let everyone know if I find out any more.

Of course you will know that these deckie-type 'codes' were not used down below, where it all mattered, insofar as we yins were the epitome of professionalism and integrity at all times and superlatives such as 'VG' were simply inadequate to describe our famed superiority .... :lol:
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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:15 pm

Colin Campbell wrote:You changing your mind again.........You started of with DRST
Still think seafarer signed on..changed his mind/sacked? ....and didnt ship out. Book sent back to "Pool" and he later shipped out.
What ship DRST against and what ship next trip.....might throw some light of events.
Mind I worked on the Glasgow "Pool" at one time, after the demise of B&L. Jobs were hard to find !!! Colin


Sorry, Colin, you are right, I've caused a wee bitty confusion mixing my DSRTs with my DRSTs ! Don't worry, you too will be old one day :(

Anyway, here are the further details requested appertaining to the time around the D.R.S.T/ annotations :

M.V. CAMEO MATE
Joined at Belfast on 19-07-1947
Discharged D.R.S.T. 02-09-1947

S.S. FELSPAR MATE
Joined at Greenock on 03-09-1947
Discharged Belfast on 02-02-1948

(Proceeded on study leave and sat for Master's on 22-03-1948)

M.V. JACINTH MATE
Joined at Blyth on10-08-1951
Discharged D.R.S.T. 20-10-1951

S.S. PEBBLE MASTER
Joined at Ayr on 24-10-1951
Discharged D.R.S.T. 16-12-1951
Joined D.R.S.T. on 02-01-1952
Discharged Glasgow on 11-06-1952
Joined at Ayr on 17-07-1952
Discharged at Ayr on 08-10-1952


All entries annotated VG in the adjacent 'Ability' and 'Conduct' columns.

Hope I have made no more silly errors - that Colin of Campbell fame has eyes like an eagle!

Thanks everyone for your help and comments.
Angus Mac Kinnon

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Colin Campbell
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Colin Campbell » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:56 am

Angus

Dug with a bone me.

Try going into nationalarchives.gov.uk.records/research-guides/merchantseamen.
All MN Forms seem to have a CRS reference number Central Record Section.

Their is also a piece about record cards for seafarers serving 1918 - 1941 Wonder if you can connect with Central Record duplicate entries from discharge book perhaps notation is different on these.
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by yorkieman » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:27 am

Angus, took the liberty of relaying the gist of this onto SeaTheShips where they are also baffled!!
Here is an abbreviation list which doesn't help buy maybe useful otherwise
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/reco ... ations.htm#

Are these DRST refs all in one area such as Clyde/Irish Sea North or do some of them stray to suggest other parts of the UK?
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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:13 pm

yorkieman wrote:Angus, took the liberty of relaying the gist of this onto SeaTheShips where they are also baffled!!
Here is an abbreviation list which doesn't help buy maybe useful otherwise
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/reco ... ations.htm#

Are these DRST refs all in one area such as Clyde/Irish Sea North or do some of them stray to suggest other parts of the UK?

Thanks, George, it's a mystery, huh? As far as I can make out, by a wee bit of Hebridean extrapolation, the areas appear to be mainly around Irish Sea and Clyde. (I think we will throw it into Salmond's white paper as a question and all those who fail to answer the question have to move to England and take up residence therein. Wotcha think? :roll:
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by yorkieman » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:21 pm

Excellent idea, and an equal number of English move north of the border, after going through passport, immigration, visa and currency exchange procedures.
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Hugh
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Hugh » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:51 pm

Angus,

The D.R.S.T is a badly written DK.ST = Dock Street.

Regards
Hugh

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:19 pm

Brilliant - many thanks, that sounds a credible explanation insofar as all efforts to define D.R.S.T. have otherwise proven fruitless to date, and the poor quality writing could be the key - albeit it certainly looks (I checked again) like D.R.S.T. as written.

Only question now is where was 'Dock Street' - I know there was a Dock Street in Clydebank, leading down into the Rothesay Dock which, as it happens, was a regular port-of-call for Robertson's ships. Could be that signings on/off were conducted on board there and as such this was shown as the 'Discharge Port'? Why not refer to the location 'Rothesay Dock' which was better known than simply 'Dock Street'? (I will re-examine what info I have to see whether I can align the Discharge Ports and Dates with the D.R.S.T.s that appear from time to time)

Think Hugh has cracked it - thank goodness, may be tonight I WILL sleep now ! Many thanks to everyone and especially Hugh without whose help I could not have obtained the relevant details from the 'system'.
Angus Mac Kinnon

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Hugh
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Hugh » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:45 pm

Dock St is in London, Angus.
If you check his discharge on CAMEO 2.9.47 the abbreviation is clearer at least to me - DRST is meaningless in the context of his discharge port.

Regard
Hugh

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Colin Campbell
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Colin Campbell » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:50 pm

Was thinking perhaps the DRST endorsement might refer to something like "Days Relate to Sea Time" as I think seafarer was required to prove sea time in one capacity before going for next examination, however having the DRST against the time on the two PEBBLE trips, when he was already Master, kind of puts paid to that.
Not unless he was after a pilotage certificate? Colin

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Question - identify the Port

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:45 pm

Evening, Colin :

I think we can safely assume that Hugh MacLean has explained it well. Whereas I had interpreted the 'poor writing' as stating D.R.S.T., elsewhere previous entries for 'Engagement' and 'Discharge' involving the S.S. Baron Loudoun in July 1938, the annotation 'Dock Street' appears but this time there is no doubt about it as it has been impressed in the columns using a traditional rubber stamp - not hand-written - and as such is as clear as day. The Hogarth vessel at the time was trading to the West Indies and the 'Dock Street' entries straddle Greenock and Cardiff entries.

Incidentally - have you been watching my wee cousin - Catriona - who you know through your Eriskay visit, on that cooking programme where pairs compete with each other? (I'm not saying she's useless, but as a Cook she'd make a good joiner !)
Angus Mac Kinnon

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