COSTA CONCORDIA

A place to cover incidents / accidents / sinkings etc from around the world.
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Francis GIB
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COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Francis GIB » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:57 am

140112: BBC is reporting that the cruise ship hit a sandbar and the order was given to Abandon Ship...

Read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16558910
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by yorkieman » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:06 am

Now lying on her side, thankfully got her close to the island before she went right over. Must have got a big gash to be incapable of being contained through compartments, assuming watertight doors were engaged ... shades of the Titanic, also demonstrates the limited availability of lifeboats once the list gets serious.
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:49 am

BBC News now saying that she hit a reef, which I assume could explain the length of the gash if she ran it along her side at 18+ knots. Skipper then elected to get her as close to the island as possible to assist evacuation. Photographs from last night dont show too bad a list but webcam images shown on the news this morning show her right over on her side. With the known vulnerability of lifeboats to listing, I thought that cruise liners now carry sufficient inflatable liferafts for all passengers and crew. Maybe with hindsight, getting everyone off on to them at the start of the incident would have been the best thing.

Bad day

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:57 am

Bound to call into question aspects of crusie ship design and stability; whilst these stanndards are very high nowadays with all our new-found technology, computerised checks and monitoring, etc., have never felt comfortable with these multi-storey vessels, same as modern tall and narrow skyscrapers put the frighteners on me. Gut feeling just screams out loudly - W R O N G !
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Henk » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:32 am

Angus Mac Kinnon wrote:Bound to call into question aspects of crusie ship design and stability; whilst these stanndards are very high nowadays with all our new-found technology, computerised checks and monitoring, etc., have never felt comfortable with these multi-storey vessels, same as modern tall and narrow skyscrapers put the frighteners on me. Gut feeling just screams out loudly - W R O N G !
That's why I love to be on board LOFOTEN! Not telling things can not go wrong, but I always have a safe feeling when downstairs in my cabin!There is enough safety material on board for all of us!
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Lofoten @HenkdeWinde.jpg
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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:55 am

That's a REAL ship, Henk, not a high-rise compartmental tank. With these ever-increasing cruise liners it's only a matter of time before the thousands of pax they carry are issued with sat navs when boarding - just to find their cabins :cry:
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:21 am

Your absolutely right Angus. I know that they are designed and tested to the highest standard but when you look at one of them bow or stern on and see the hight : beam ratio, remember how little of them is underwater, and they look far from stable. Several years ago when the 100,000 ton + monsterss were starting to appear, we were at the captain's table on the old Victoria and that delightful Aussie Captain Michael Fatchen (now Commodore Fatchen of Princess Cruises) opined that he would far rather be caught out in a winter N. Atlantic storm on his wee Victoria than on the then brand new four times his size Grand Princess.

BIg question now of couse is "why was he where he was?" That's a route that the Costa ships take regularly and so they definately were not in (for them) uncharted waters. Let's hope the death toll stays down at 3.

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:37 am

You posted just as I was about to post some images of the ill-fated ship and your posting knocked me off and I could not find it again, so am doing it again !

Irrespective of computer analyses, calculations, and the whole plethora of modern technology, any experienced seaman who knows his stuff will feel apprehensive when seeing the size, height and proportions of these mammoth vessels. The old adage 'the bigger they are the harder they fall' comes to mind. The greatest concern for me is the astonishing number of passengers they carry - it is being reported that Costa Concordia had 4,000 on board - this makes the TITANIC seem like a Channel ferry in comparison, a major disaster mid-ocean, a-la-Titanic, doesn't bear thinking about.

Stern and side views of Costa Concordia - taken on 24th of October 2008 in Malta's Grand Harbour

(and a view of the super-yacht Indian Empress that was lying nearby that day)
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Malta - October 2008 290.jpg
Costa Concordia - Stern View
Malta - October 2008 355.jpg
Costa Concordia - Side View
Malta - October 2008 232.jpg
Super-Yacht 'Indian Empress'
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Henk » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:30 pm

Right Angus. And it is not a question "if" but "when" this disaster will happen. One thing is for sure: I will not be on board!
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:47 pm

These photos show the size of the gash in her hull. Latest reports saying "dozens" unaccounted for.
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by yorkieman » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:56 pm

That's an enormous boulder lodged in her side, must have struck at some speed. Note the port stabiliser forward of that is intact, perhaps it was extended only after the impact.
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:24 pm

Very sadly, the latest news reports say that 70 are still unaccounted for.

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by SCameron » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:14 pm

We should, of course, wait for the professional assessment of what happened but its difficult not to be shocked by the images and videos on YouTube and elsewhere. It is not clear to me how far she travelled after she hit the reef. The marks in the torn steelwork seem to indicate contact at high speed and make it difficult to think of much other than a navigational error. As she listed to starboard but there is a big hole visible on the port side does that infer the hole runs across the hull from one side to the other and if that is the case surely her machinery would have stopped very quickly. Or would it have been possible to try to make her list towards the shore for fear that she would role over onto the lifeboats when they were still trying to get people off?



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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by E28 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:49 pm

Not the only 1 in the last few days.

The MSC operated POESIA ran aground off Port Lucaya, Grand Bahama on the 7th Jan.
Managed to get her off assisted by a number of tugs.
IMO 9387073
L 30 Aug 2007
93,000 grt
Raid - Trade - Aid
Thats all folks. Sean. E28

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by yorkieman » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:45 am

I would still read it that the first damage was the port side, survivors speak of her going over one way, coming back up then going over the other way, so maybe the final roll to starboard was just a consequence of the captain putting her ashore, literally, which seems to have been one sensible move among the apparent chaos.
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by SCameron » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:05 pm

In searching for pictures of the CC I came across a report on another dramatic maritime accident on Friday night when the fast ferry Milenium Dis was in collision with a bulkcarrier - pictures of damage to the ferry at

http://www.fotosdebarcos.org/viewtopic.php?t=30025

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Malim Sahib
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Malim Sahib » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:39 pm

Her AIS track and charts of the route are here: http://gcaptain.com/cruise-ship-costa-c ... nks/?37456

I can see questions being asked as to why a ship that size went through the 'gap' as shown on charts - not a lot of room!
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by davidwat » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:42 pm

Hi Jim,

That is unbelievable! To even consider taking a ship of that size, and with 4000 people onboard, is mind boggling. And at night! I think at least the Master could be charged with unnecessarily hazarding his vessel. The other thing that comes to mind, in this modern day and age of Bridge Management Teams, and SMS, is did none of the other officers question the wisdom of the route? There have been suggestions that the Master was not even on the bridge at the time when his vessel was in very close proximity to the shore, which, if true, suggests that his ideas about priorities come into question also.
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Malim Sahib
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Malim Sahib » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:29 pm

Hi David,
In a TV interview the master stated that he had planned to be, and was, 300 metres from charted hazards - 300 metres!
To consider such manoeuvre in daylight, on something coaster sized would be seen as particularly foolhardy if not a serious error of judgement, but on a 115000GRT passenger ship with over 4000 souls onboard and at night, it appears to go well beyond negligence.
I rather suspect his career is at an end, together with those who were on watch, not to mention possible criminal charges against all and sundry.
I'm sure there will be some serious fallout over this incident, both for Costa/Carnival and the passenger ship industry as a whole, especially with regards to the chaos witnessed during abandonment, e.g. lack of boat drill, passengers running around trying to find spaces on lifeboats because they didn't know where to go, lack of confidence in the headcount etc.
This has been the first serious accident with one of these new behemoths, but one of the first things I've noticed being called into question - quite rightly in my view - is simply are these ships getting too big? There has been growing consensus for some time in the maritime world that they most certainly are. Indeed, we only have to consider what might have happened if she had foundered further offshore and in deeper water - at the moment beaching the ship appears to have been the principal factor in the number of lives saved, going by the (visible) damage sustained, which appears to go well beyond 'assumed damage' for survivability. In deeper water she would have capsized/sank quickly and I don't think I'm exaggerating when I suggest that loss of life would have been particularly severe.
Regards,

Jim

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Henk » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:45 pm

Captain arrested

This article is from the Dutch "Koopvaardij" maybe somebody can translate it?

Kapitein cruiseschip verdacht van dood door schuld
Francesco Schettino, de kapitein van het gekapseisde cruiseschip
Costa Concordia, is zaterdag aangehouden.

Hij is al uren ondervraagd. Hij wordt verdacht van dood door schuld, het veroorzaken van het zinken van een schip en van het in de steek laten van passagiers, aldus Italiaanse media.
Volgens het Openbaar Ministerie in het Toscaanse Grosseto heeft de kapitein het schip al vrijdagavond om 23.30 uur verlaten, terwijl de laatste reddingsboot met passagiers pas om 03.00 uur 's nachts vertrok.

Schettino had voor zijn aanhouding tegen de Italiaanse tv gezegd dat het stuk rots waar de Costa Concordia vrijdag tegenaan voer, niet op de zeekaart staat. 'Dit obstakel had er niet moeten zijn', aldus de kapitein.
'We hadden genoeg water onder ons moeten hebben.' Volgens inwoners van het eilandje Giglio die de zee rond het eiland goed kennen, is dat niet waar: De rotsen, Le Scole genoemd, staan gewoon op de kaart.
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by mcmahos » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:54 pm

Rough translation by Giggle is:

"Cruise ship captain accused of manslaughter
Francesco Schettino, the captain of the capsized cruise ship
Costa Concordia, was arrested Saturday.

He was interrogated for hours. He is accused of involuntary manslaughter, causing the sinking of a ship and the abandonment of passengers, according to Italian media.
According to the Public Prosecutor in Tuscany Grosseto, the captain the ship was to leave Friday evening at 23.30 hours, while the last lifeboat with passengers only at 03.00 am departed.

Schettino for his arrest on the Italian TV said that the rock where the Costa Concordia Friday against it do, not on the nautical chart. "This obstacle could not be," said the captain.
"We had enough water under us should have." According to residents of the island of Giglio that the sea surrounding the island is well known, is not true: the rocks, Le Scole given are just on the map."
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Henk » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:00 pm

Thanks Stuart!
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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Malim Sahib : COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:32 pm

Jim :

You are one of the few who has illustrated the real danger and risk here, i.e. what if an incident like this happened in deep waters?

Ships of this size, carrying upwards of four to five thousand passengers and crew, and irrespective of whether they have any inherent design, engineering or workmanship frailties, just have to increase the risk factors to levels previously unknown outside of maritime warfare.

The fact that this cruise liner has sailed all over the place for a number of years, successfully other than the odd minor incident, would suggest that the vessel is sound enough and what has happened had little to do with the vessel and everything to do with the judgement and competence of those who were 'managing' her.

That aside, it is high time the relevant authorities recognised the dangers and risks that these 'behmoths' introduce on the seas, and spend less time doing health and safety analyses of kids playing conkers and gave some thought to a mammoth ship with anywhere between 3000 - 5000 people on board have an outbreak of fire, serious disease, breakdowns in hurricane force weather conditions, or some suchlike horror story.

Even if they cannot regulate the size down to Henk's favoured LOFOTEN, at least introduce restrictions and limitations that ultimately decrease the high risks these cruise liners pose presently. It is a fact that a large proportion of the passengers who can afford to indulge on these cruises are advanced in years and, under stressful circumstances, are not best equipped to deal with a crisis.

Of course the cruise liner industry will scream from the rooftops, the industry is too lucrative for it to be any other way, but disregard these bandits and have no sympathy for them whatsoever. Remember, it was Costa who reneged on the significant contract held with Cammell Laird and put that historic Company to the wall. Not all cruise operators are that crass, but nonetheless they are of the same genre and certainly would not attract any synmpathy from my direction. :cry:
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:04 pm

Latest news on BBC carrying a statement from Costa stating that the master made a "serious error of judgement" and that he should not have used that narrow channel. But, was he taking a shorter route under pressure to arrive in Savona early for the ships main turnround day?

I also heard from a interview with a passenger who had boarded earlier that day that their emergency drill wasnt due to take place until the next day after they had left Savona.

One hell of a lot of questions needing answered.




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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Francis GIB » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:18 pm

My daughter has been twice on Costa ships, and the lifeboat/lifejacket drill takes place 24 hrs after the ship leaves the port. It bears out what a survivor has said...
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by yorkieman » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:37 am

Odd thought in passing, as soon as you sit down on an aeroplane you are told what to do in an emergency .... on a ship, not for 24 hours, clearly nothing is going to happen in 24 hours, is it!
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Magoonigal » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:22 am

Cannot understand why they have different standards within the Group.

With P & O the Drill takes place before the ship leaves Port on the First Day and woe betide anyone who does not turn up!

All 'New' crew, from the Captain down must attend a Safety Briefing/Drill as soon as they rejoin the ship, even if they have only been away for a week.
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:04 am

Adding to what you said Paul, even if there is only a handful of passengers joining a P&O cruise at an intermediate port they still must attend a drill for the newcomers before the ship sails.

Last time we sailed on another Carnival ship it was on Holland America's Voldendam from Vancouver and their drill was next morning, which was a sea day. That despite one of their other ships operating out of Vancouver having only a few months before suffered an engine room explosion on the night she left Vancouver and with the passengers having to muster without having been briefed. I believe they may have changed their practice since though.

It doesnt sound as if there is any international law on this, or at best its a very lax one.

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Doxford Diesel » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:05 am

The Concordia ran on a circuit using the same ports in rotation. Passengers could have just joined, as some did at Civitivecchia or had been on for several days already, and about to leave the ship on Saturday at Savona. Most had probably already done boat drill.

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by yorkieman » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:53 pm

I understand that DD but if you have just joined the ship and 90% of the other passengers have already had a drill, that's irrelevant to YOU and you are in the dark (maybe literally) if anything goes wrong. So everyone who joins should go through a drill, as Alasdair mentions.
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Magoonigal » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:32 pm

Yes, we join ORIANA on Sunday in Dubai to do the next leg of her World Cruise across to Hong Kong. Our boarding time is 12-30 and I would be very surprised if our safety briefing is the next day, especially in the current circumstances.
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Henk » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:50 pm

Magoonigal wrote:Yes, we join ORIANA on Sunday in Dubai to do the next leg of her World Cruise across to Hong Kong. Our boarding time is 12-30 and I would be very surprised if our safety briefing is the next day, especially in the current circumstances.
Before you leave Dubai Paul, you know there are some Svitzer tugs over there? Keep your camera dry until back in UK. Have a good trip!!
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:25 pm

Hi Paul. have a great cruise. Hope you have planned a few days in Hong Kong before you fly home - it's just the most incredible place. And yes, 100% you will have your drill before you sail - still British masters and senior officers on P&O

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Magoonigal » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:19 pm

Yep, one full day in Dubai on the way and three nights in Hong Kong on the way back.

Even bought a new Camera for the trip!!
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by SCameron » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:02 pm

Magoonigal wrote:Yep, one full day in Dubai on the way and three nights in Hong Kong on the way back.

Even bought a new Camera for the trip!!
If your appetite and wallet are up for it, visit Jimmy's Kitchen in HK - best steaks ever! There are two of them - the original at Wyndham Street on the island and another at Ashley Road in Kowloon. Was back there last year -first time in a few years but its still as good as ever.

Apologies for digressing off subject
:oops:
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:29 pm

Just back online from having been using my smartphone for the last few days and so now able to see the charts that Jim posted the link to. Using the measuring tool on Google Earth, the gap between the two small islets at 42.356000 N 10.928000 E through which she attempted to pass, and apparently hit the one furthest offshore with her starboard side, is waters edge to waters edge roughly 240 feet, barely more than double her beam. Goodness knows how much narrower the actual navigable channel is, if there even is one. It absolutely beggars belief.

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by yorkieman » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:49 pm

I'm surprised that the media don't seem to have cottoned on to this apparent passage between the islands ... they showed today the general track nothwards with the 'lunge' towards Giglio but not the local detail which if correct is surely the decisive error, as Alasdair says 'beggars belief'.
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Tracking course of COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:04 pm

Track of the Costa Concordia's passage immediately before disaster struck

http://www.qps.nl/download/attachments/ ... 6885071126
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by alasdairmac » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:39 am

Shows a different track to the one in the link posted earlier by Jim but very definately a tad late with the "right hand down a bit" command. You can almost hear her port side ripping along that rock outside the two small islands on the chart. Even if the master was too busy chatting up the mysterious Moldovan blonde to notice, what were the rest of his bridge team up to?

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Francis GIB » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:04 pm

Just received the daily bulletin from Cruise Critic where they speculate on the following scenario (PDF):

http://www.cruise.co.uk/images/Cruise/c ... vage_0.pdf
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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA

Post by Francis GIB » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:46 am

From newsclippings (180312):

Moving Costa Concordia cruise liner 'could cost €100m'

Refloating the stricken COSTA CONCORDIA cruise liner will cost "far beyond" €100m (£83m), according to a dredging and maritime services company bidding for the task.

The chief executive of Royal Boskalis Westminster said today that recovering the ship was "an operation without precedent". Peter Berdowski, chief executive, said: "You're not talking about an operation of a few dozen millions but something that goes far beyond €100 million. "This is an operation without precedent. You have to imagine a big fat whale the size of a block of flats lying on its side, accidentally supported by two rocks." He said Boskalis has put
forward a "responsible and careful way" to refloat the cruise liner. The COSTA CONCORDIA has lain off the coast of the Italian island of Giglio since January after running aground on rocks and partially sinking in an accident. Boskalis's SMIT business has already won the contract to remove fuel from the ship. It is understood that the Dutch company, which founded its UK arm, the Westminster Dredging Company in the 1930s, is one of six to have submitted a proposal to remove the ship. Some of the rival bidders have proposed cutting up the COSTA CONCORDIA, which would be a cheaper alternative initially. The final decision will be taken by insurers and Carnival, the owner of the cruise ship. Carnival has warned that it could take a year for 951ft long COSTA CONCORDIA to be moved. Boskalis and its subsidiaries have a long history of salvaging vessels. It raised the Russian nuclear submarine KURSK after it sank in 2000, and lifted the HERALD OF FREE ENTERPRISE, the British car ferry which capsized in 1987, resulting in the deaths of 193 people. Carnival has forecast that the COSTA CONCORDIA disaster will reduce its profits by up to $175m (£112m) and says the ship has been deemed a "total loss". It has predicted earnings per share this year of $1.40 to $1.70, compared with $2.42 last year. Source : telegraph.co.uk
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