WAVERLEY 2013

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riverman
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:22 pm

Penultimate sail of the season, Loch Long. :wave:
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by yorkieman » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:46 pm

Very fine seasonal views Paul, well caught especially the nicely framed centre one.
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Calum McCulloch
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Last day's sail

Post by Calum McCulloch » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:55 pm

Last day of 2013 season, brightening up a bit as she passes Wemyss Bay
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bobrobert
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:57 pm

Arriving back at Helensburgh. The planned three hour trip on the Loch was for three hours but lasted two and was tied up at Blairmore at 15.30hrs instead of 16.00hrs
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alasdairmac
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:09 am

Well, that's another season over and by all accounts a reasonably good one financially for the old girl. I made it for the Largs / Tighnabruich / Largs legs of yesterday's final sailing and considering the appalling weather there was a good crowd on board, albeit with not one hardy soul out on deck braving the torrential rain as we made our way from Rothesay back to Largs.

Now just to wait on next years schedules being published and hoping for a better Western Isles programme than was on offer this year ( anyone from WEL and the Met Office reading this, please note !!) :D

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duncanwilson
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by duncanwilson » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:37 pm

I got on at Greenock and was pleasantly surprised to see so many folk on board.
The weather was absolutely glorious all the way to Rothesay, but sadly it didn't last. Probably just as well we only had half an hour at Tighnabruaich.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by yorkieman » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:59 pm

Now looking for supporting funding from Glasgow and other local councils

http://www.buteman.co.uk/what-s-on/leis ... -1-3161407
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alasdairmac
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:32 pm

Fairly normal George. The auld tub brings in a lot of revenue to the towns around the estuary. Just as an example, every Saturday she probably delivers three or four hundred revellers including hen and stag parties to Rothesay where they'll deposit several thousand pounds into the coffers of the town's pubs and chippies before getting back on board to go home. She does a great job for the economy of these places and more than deserves council support

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Number6
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Number6 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:47 pm

The principle is unarguable, but the factual situation somewhat different.

Public money is currently far too precious and far too scarce to be thrown away on organisations that have a whole lot more to do to help themselves before they look for external support.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by yorkieman » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:25 pm

And the counter argument to Alasdair's point is that if she did not take these parties to Rothesay, presumably the money would still be spent somewhere around the Clyde, so the spend is being moved around, not an extra amount created and one local authority's gain is another's loss. So if all local councils support her, it's on balance no overall gain but some may do better out of it than others!
That said, good luck to them in getting funds from wherever and whoever they can.
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mcmahos
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by mcmahos » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:03 pm

Can't link to it right now from my phone but there's an interesting document on Argyll & Bute's website published today relating to the pros and cons of giving Waverley money - and it contains some very interesting comments/observations.
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_on_the_clyde_
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by _on_the_clyde_ » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:45 pm

mcmahos wrote:Can't link to it right now from my phone but there's an interesting document on Argyll & Bute's website published today relating to the pros and cons of giving Waverley money - and it contains some very interesting comments/observations.
http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/moderngov ... ACKAGE.pdf

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Clydebuilt1971
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Clydebuilt1971 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:34 am

Potential funding packages should be dependant on WEL producing a sensible business plan which demonstrates efforts from their side to evolve the business into something which can be more self sustaining in the future - not an easy task.

At the moment the "give us money" approach is still numero uno followed closely by out of touch on board prices.

Hopefully the figures for this season will be in their favour so there is at least some money in the bank over the winter.

G

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bobrobert
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:33 pm

A lot of people are complaining about the prices but if they are reduced then there is less income? The restaurant can only hold a certain number of passengers. One of my bug bears is that quite often when you go into the bar for a drink you can't sit and enjoy it because the seats are taken up by non drinkers. lower prices won't neccesarily mean a bigger turnover.

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alasdairmac
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:54 pm

Gav, Clyde sailings revenue in July was reportedly 40% plus above budget with something like 37,000 passenger journeys over the month. She didn't lose too many south coast and Thames trips to weather either and so fingers crossed..... I have been one of WEL's vociferous critics but the new top management, new website and other initiatives do suggest that they are now moving in the right direction. Also, the new PSPS national chairman has been a bit outspoken on the subject and clearly wants the PSPS to be listened to by WEL and WSN.

Bobrobert - Do what I now do - take a packed lunch and a flask, although I must say that on a Sunday sail the roast lunch (washed down by a pint) does go down well - and at around £8.50 it isn't too badly priced compared to a Toby Carvery or the like.
:beer:

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Number6
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Number6 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:26 am

I don't know what south coast season you were looking at, but the Solent and Isle of Wight was no plain sailing. The Thames was reportedly mainly up to par - but costly in the extreme due to pilotage charges that have been avoided with a ticketed skipper in recent years. When Waverley left the Clyde she was £80k up on budget - but what budget - and certainly no budget includes that money guzzling establsihment at Lancefield Quay which gobbles up half a million a year. £15k of that excess would have vapourised as she passed Llandudno empty - showing how vulnerable a one ship operation really is.

New top management - do you know something we don't? Messrs O Brian and Neill are still there as they have been for years, so I'll not hold my breath for change at the executive level! How much better off we would be if they had been challenged over recent years.

Outspoken new chairman? Iain is careful, measured, and clearly embarked on a course of letting down the society gently by tacitly admitting that there is no heart for the Balmoral scheme, and consigning vast areas of the British Isles to a future completely bereft of coastal cruising, as if there is sufficient market in the Clyde to sustain a one ship operation with all the overheads, and risk, that requires.

There wasn't in 1977 and there isn't now.

Mark my words - the good years ended in September 2012 when the Balmoral tied up in Oban - Unless a Weirs of Cardiff Bay comes forward the PSPS as a national organisation is history and the Waverley's finances will, tragically, follow

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alasdairmac
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:29 pm

There are certainly some changes still needing made but as far as Balmoral is concerned she was just too much of an expensive.luxury that was unsustainable. And in my opinion quite unnecessary.


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bobrobert
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:21 am

If trying to keep the Balmoral "afloat" "sinks" the Waverley then that wouldn't be a tragedy but downright incompetence and shocking. Clear thinking and no nostalgia is needed. Better to have one ship sailing successfully - the Waverley - than two sinking together.

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Number6
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Number6 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:50 pm

And if that typifies the view from the north - good luck with your one ship strategy - I'll give it five years at most - less with the present management set up.

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Malim Sahib
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Malim Sahib » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:46 pm

I've always thought that Waverley spending her entire season in Scotland could well be viable, with the Summer season split between Oban and Glasgow; the former is potentially an untapped gold mine.
That would of course require sensible, targeted, marketing both amongst tourists and tour operators, with timetables published Oct/Nov before the Summer season as well as a massive overhaul of the current customer service system within WEL.
No chance of it happening of course.
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Jim

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Number6
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Number6 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:09 pm

I would incline to that view myself - let's be honest WCRC shift 350 people from Fort Bill to Mallaig from mid May until mid October - twice that from June to September - but they are playing to the international tourist market and Hawwy Pottah!! and they pick them up and set them down at sensible times.

No reason WEL couldn't do something akin - except imagination, confidence, understanding marketing - you know - all that stuff that's been missing for over a decade now!

BUT - that still does not deal with overheads in the shoulder months of April and May and September and October which is where the Thames comes in - or occasions such as 1977 and 1987 when a second ship saves the company - but those days are gone now thanks to Lancefield Quay management - and at some time in the future chickens WILL fly home to roost.

When it happens - remember - you were warned!

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bobrobert
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:02 am

Can someone give me a good reason why the Waverley can't sail in Scottish waters - June to end of September - and Balmoral do the same in the South and make money? Why have Waverley sail south - with all of the fuel expense - for six weeks whilst Balmoral sits tied up?

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Malim Sahib
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Malim Sahib » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:14 am

Number6 wrote: BUT - that still does not deal with overheads in the shoulder months of April and May and September and October which is where the Thames comes in - or occasions such as 1977 and 1987 when a second ship saves the company - but those days are gone now thanks to Lancefield Quay management - and at some time in the future chickens WILL fly home to roost.

When it happens - remember - you were warned!
The problem with the notion of the second ship saving the company is that based on recent experience it is exactly what Balmoral won't do!
I can't help but think that jollys to the Thames are bordering on the unjustifiable - you have to get there and back with the attendant cost of light sailings and then there's the question of how long she remains. I think the current UK wide programme as it stands is simply not fit for purpose in these days of increasing fuel costs, weather cancellations and stricter regulatory requirements.
Oban/Tobermory (Balamory effect)/Iona sailings could have huge potential as a bread and butter operation.
Regards,

Jim

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alasdairmac
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:22 am

I would certainly commend the idea of keeping Waverley in Scottish waters to further investigation by WEL, if they haven't already done so. Oban for example is busy with tourists from Easter through the holiday weekends at the beginning and end of May, and on to the holiday weekend at the end of September. Added to that, I've been told that most are short-stay and so essentially you have a new market to sell to every week. So, Perhaps Oban from Easter to early/mid June, Clyde to mid-September, and the last couple of weeks back up at Oban.

They could also be a lot more innovative. For example, wildlife sea safari's are a big business out of Mull these days (and not cheap at £50 for a 4 hour sail) and there is no reason why Waverley couldn't get in on the act, and with with lower prices, for a, say, weekly themed cruise with an experienced guide on board. Sailing from Oban with a pick-up in Tobermory, she could get six hours out in the whale, dolphin and basking shark hot spots around the Cairns of Coll, Small Isles and the Gunna Sound. And of course the prospect of Sea and Golden eagles on the way to and from.

Balmoral? WSN clearly don't see a future for her as a pleasure trip vessel in southern waters else why would they see their only option as being to pass the risk to someone else via a bare-boat charter? Any sign of eager operators queuing up to take her on? Hopefully she could become a static floating restaurant complex in one of the holiday resorts down there but unless that happens then I'm afraid her only future is an appointment with the breaker's torch.

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Malim Sahib
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Malim Sahib » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:29 pm

More personnel changes afoot?
From the latest NUMAST telegraph I see WAVEXare advertising for a Master, Chief Officer, Chief Engineer and Engineer OOW.
Regards,

Jim

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alasdairmac
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:59 pm

Very interesting Jim. Need to keep ears to the ground.

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