Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

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valeman
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Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by valeman » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:56 pm

View of Glasgow Harbour in the early 1950s. Steamer heading for Kingston Dock is Minard. Others the I can read names are Baron Ardrossan (it is Baron Ailsa Edit.) at General Terminus Quay and on the far side Laidshill. Have not seen this Ralston postcard before.

Second is a bit later view of Ardrossan Harbour from the air.

Third is Ayr Harbour. Do not have a date
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Ralston Minard Upper River264.jpg
Glasgow Harbour around 1953
Ardrossan from air251.jpg
Ardrossan from the air
Ayr Harbour268.jpg
Ayr Harbour
Last edited by valeman on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:50 pm

Absolutely excellent images, Graham, very evocative. Long time since there were ten ships in Ardrossan Harbour!

The one of Ayr looks to be around the 40s or 50s. In the distance, the steel lattice girder construction of the goods railway bridge that crossed over the river from South Harbour Street can be clearly seen. Only some of the stone support piers remain there today. The line was closed down around the early 60s, and the bridge structure itself removed c. 1978. :(
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Colin Campbell
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:03 pm

Have not seen that Glasgow view before either. Suggest Broomielaw from left to right ...partial view of Lairdsburn,(big ventilator atop the third class accommodation) Lairdshill bow upriver and facing downriver Lairds Loch,something else is in there,and of course there is a "Royal" up at the bridge. Are you sure Baron Ardrossan?? . Baron boats of course were registered in Ardrossan but is the name not much shorter than that? Perhaps only say five letters?

In the Ardrossan view I can see two B&L ships (I think) either Lairdscrest or Lairdswood on the berth on the right top...and perhaps the Lairdsglen is over on the top left bow facing you.

Where do you get these GEMS? Like them a lot Colin

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:15 pm

Studying that "something else" and note the bridge has cabs on the bridge wings......as did the sisterships Lairds Moor and Lairds Ben...position was just about where they would be seen at the foot of James Watt Street.
Mondays were a day when the whole quay side from Broomielaw/Anderston Quay/Lancefield Quay would be lined up after the
whole of the Glasgow regulars had come home over Sunday.
Forgetting two of Sloans on the south side at Windmillcroft Quay. Colin

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by valeman » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:58 pm

Colin: Mind must be wandering. It is of course Baron Ailsa. The port of registration must have caught my eye. Many thanks for the comments from you and Angus.
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Baron Ailsa Upper River264.jpg
Baron Ailsa
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by valeman » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:29 am

There appear to be two somethings else upriver of the Laids Loch. Looks like both Lairds Moor and Lairds Ben are present.

In the Ayr slide, there is a Swedish ship named Slitt or Blitt and registered at Malmo. Presumably she has just off-loaded timber.
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Ralston Upper River264.jpg
B&L close-ups
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by errchie » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:34 am

Hi Graham,
Remember those days at Ardrossan very well, in dock I can recognise the Kildonnan or Arran dependent on the
photograph date, with the Lairdscrest or Lairdswood at the then Belfast berth.
In the dockyard it could possibly be a Coe coaster do not recognise the other berthed at the 15ton crane.
Great photo glad to see someone had the foresight to document what was a normal part of daily life there
in the fifties. Can also see the stern of a coastal tanker at the Shell berth on the other side of Montgomery
pier.
Thanks
Archie

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Colin Campbell
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:33 pm

Looking at the Ayr picture. Think that three stick coaster alongside the Swedish ship must be one of William Robertsons ships going by the white line under the bridge, a feature found only on their ships Colin

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:47 pm

Agree probably both Moor and Ben behind Lairds Loch. You can count two mainmasts with houseflags atop.

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:51 pm

Colin Campbell wrote:Looking at the Ayr picture. Think that three stick coaster alongside the Swedish ship must be one of William Robertsons ships going by the white line under the bridge, a feature found only on their ships Colin
Agree - definitiely one of Robertson's steamers for whom Ayr was a regular port, like Kelly of Belfast. Timber in / Coal out.
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Colin Campbell
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:31 pm

Graham, Still looking at you recent photos. Was in the Mitchell Library yesterday and in the Strathclyde Regional Archive they have a representative copy of LLoyds Register for 1920s 30s 40 etc but was unable to trace a BLITT or a SLITT in any of them.Any more thoughts on possible lettering?

Glasgow view....Lairds Ben came out in 1949.....Lairdsburn was scrapped in 1953 also... Belfast Berth moved to Lancefield Quay in 1953 so must be within those dates. Clyde Trust arrival/sailing books exist for a number of years but seem to start later than 1953 however there was a Register of Ships Passing Govan Wharf Hailing Station and had a quick look.

The BARON AILSA appears in the portion I looked through as arriving 3/3/1953 and sailing again 17/3/1953. Going on my conviction that such a B&L line up would only be seen on a Sunday/Monday there would be two possible weekends (9th or 15th)
Ill look again next visit. Incidently, if March 1953 is correct for Baron Ailsa.. the Belfast ships were Royal Ulsterman and Irish Coast therefor we might have a name for the Royal! and perhaps the two Sloan steamers. Colin

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Allan » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:10 pm

Quick note to praise those who post above – displaying a wealth of knowledge worthy of this site.

Allan
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millfield153a
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by millfield153a » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:19 am

The Glasgow Harbour arrival and departure books at the Mitchell date back far into the mists of time (as far back as 1819, apparently). They are certainly available for the early fifties and sometimes the details recorded include the berth number.

The Mitchell also holds records from Ardrossan Harbour: T-CN45 through to T-CN54. These include Arrrivals and Sailings Books 1949-1966 and the Harbourmaster's Log Books 1955 to 1967.

The National Archives of Scotland holds records from Ayr Harbour: BR/AYH. These include Arrivals and Sailings Books 1948 to 1962.

So, there are documentary sources which might help to confirm the wonderfully well-informed deductions already posted, if anyone has the opportunity to look them up.

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by valeman » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:39 pm

Colin: Here is a close-up of the Swedish ship's name. Could be Glitt?

I'm really impressed with the research that everyone has done on these photographs. Many thanks to all.
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Ayr Harbour Malmo steamer268.jpg
Malmo steamer at Ayr
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by millfield153a » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:55 pm

Yes: http://www.plimsollshipdata.org/pdffile ... 5a0450.pdf takes you to a PDF of the 1945 Lloyds Register which shows that Glitt was built in 1907 by Hawthorn Leslie, though she had gone through three previous names before she became Glitt. (1945 seems to be the most recent edition freely available online.)

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:25 pm

millfield153a wrote:Yes: http://www.plimsollshipdata.org/pdffile ... 5a0450.pdf takes you to a PDF of the 1945 Lloyds Register which shows that Glitt was built in 1907 by Hawthorn Leslie, though she had gone through three previous names before she became Glitt. (1945 seems to be the most recent edition freely available online.)

This site is becoming more like a detective agency every day ! Well done everyone, great work. A little bit more :

1907 : Vessel built as a cargo ship, by Hawthorn Leslie of Hebburn, DYKH-TAU for Russian SN & Tdg Coy (ROPIT)

Triple Expansion Steam Reciprocating Engine by Ross & Duncan of Govan, Glasgow, rated at 597 NHP, giving the vessel a normal speed of about 10.5 knots.

1925 : Changed to FERLO for S.A. des Messageries Africaines - Dakar
1929 : Changed to TURE for Rederi A/B Gusten - Malmo, Sweden
1932 : Changed to GLITT for Rederi A/B Malmhus - Malmo, Sweden
1954 : Changed to ZOR for Nuri Ykmaz ve Ortklari - Istanbul, Turkey

1955 : Capsized 6 miles WNW of Dudgeon, on 19th May, whilst on a passage from Kasko to Hull with a cargo of timber. In heavy weather on 18th May her cargo shifted and some of the crew were taken off, but her Captain and a few others decided to remain on board. The following day gales from the North worsened her situation and they only just got off before she capsized and sank.


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SpenceB
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by SpenceB » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:34 pm

Great work, as Angus says, but don`t lets forget the dredger "Kyle" in the right hand bottom corner of the Ayr picture !!!

Iain

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Colin Campbell
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:28 pm

Similar view of Glasgow Broomielaw area
Left to right..Coast Lines vessel (part)?? Lairdsglen..Lairdsrose...Lairdsburn
South side.. Marsworth with one of William Sloans steamers behind. Presumably ships just returning to civilian colours.

Colin
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Broomielaw 1945ish.jpg
Glasgow Harbour around 1945

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Colin Campbell
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:09 pm

Spent this wild and windy afternoon in the Mitchell Library with Clyde Trust arrival/departure registers and using the Govan Wharf lists of vessels passing, couldnt match all the ships to the previous dates. Baron Ailsa,however is also reported as passing in at 7.42pm on 19 July 1951 and doesnt sail again to 01 Sept 1951.
Checking against weekend arrivals it turns out

Sat 25 August Lairdshill arrives 12.02pm and sails Monday 27 Aug 6.10pm

Sunday 26 August
Lairds Loch arrives 6.44am and sails 27th 5.21pm
ROYA ULSTERMAN arrives 6.58am sails 27th 9.12pm
Lairds Moor arrives 8.21am sails 27th 5.23pm
Lairds Ben arrives 9.21am sails 28th 5.28pm
Lairdsburn arrives 11.29am sails 28th 4,29pm

So all these ships were in Glasgow Monday 27/8/1951 when Minard passes Govan at 1.47pm bound for Kingston Dock

That same Monday Sloans BEAULY was in having arrived 24/8 and sailing 28/8 also ORCHY is listed as arriving 31/7 but not leaving until 30/8/1951
So my contention is the postcard could date from Monday 27 August 1951 sometime that afternoon.
I rest my case Colin

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by millfield153a » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:52 pm

The Glasgow Herald reports Baron Ailsa's arrival in Glasgow in July as 'put back from sea'. She is later reported as 'repairing'.

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Colin Campbell
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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:25 am

millfield153a wrote:The Glasgow Herald reports Baron Ailsa's arrival in Glasgow in July as 'put back from sea'. She is later reported as 'repairing'.
Wondered why she was in Glasgow such a long time. Thought perhaps an overhaul/drydocking or such.The Govan Registers of course only give a time passing not the berth they were bound for. Noted Flying Tempest is listed above her on the page and Flying Swordfish below...all with the same time. Many thanks

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by Colin Campbell » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:30 pm

Colin Campbell wrote:Similar view of Glasgow Broomielaw area
Left to right..Coast Lines vessel (part)?? Lairdsglen..Lairdsrose...Lairdsburn
South side.. Marsworth with one of William Sloans steamers behind. Presumably ships just returning to civilian colours.

Colin
Managed to find the relevant entries in the Clyde Trust arrival/departure books for 1945 and find that MARSWORTH passed Govan Wharf inwards 01.02am Monday 08 October 1945 and passed outward 10.11am Thursday 01 November 1945. As for the other ships in the picture KENTISH COAST arrived 09/10/45 LAIRDSHILL (not Lairdsburn as I earlier claimed) arrived 10/10/45 LAIRDSGLEN and LAIRDSROSE and BRORA all arrived 11/10/45 Colin

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Re: Glasgow Ardrossan and Ayr Harbours

Post by valeman » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:29 am

Colin: A tour-de-force to cap some great sleuthing. Many thanks indeed. Graham
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