Any ideas on this ship's identity?

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valeman
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Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by valeman » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:02 pm

Old postcard of the South Basin of Prince's Dock (Cessnock Dock) with a steamship with a curious funnel. Anyone with an idea of the the shipping line (B or 8 on the funnel) or the ship?
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Cessnock DockA089.jpg
Cessnock Dock
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by Henk » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:04 pm

After somewhat lightening it seems the flag is a two coloured one with light on top and dark below.
In this shot it is not so good to see, but it looks like there is some drawing in the middle of it.
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by yorkieman » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:51 pm

I would say definitely it will be a 'B' on the funnel, but pinning down an owner just from that is not an easy task!
Probably an 1880-1900 sort of build period.
Just posisble that the end of the flag on Henk's lightening might show the edge of a cross such as Swedish flag.
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by Henk » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:22 pm

Don't know George. To me it looks more like the Portugese flag. Maybe Bacalhau Armadores from Lisbon? They sailed until 1990 with ships build In 1941/1948.
Sailing with the lifeboat outboard is something from The War isn't it?
The ship itself looks not too old to me.
Looking to the structure on the aftdeck, build for southerly waters? Mediterranean for example?
Last edited by Henk on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Colin Campbell
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by Colin Campbell » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:35 pm

Looking in 1943 copy of Talbot Booths Merchant Ships for black funnel with a B

J A Bilmier & Co London

R Brunkman (Rederi A/B Brubor) Helsingborg Sweden their B was red

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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by valeman » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:38 pm

Thanks to everyone for their help. The card is an old one, posted in 1905 and the use of Cessnock Dock suggests the photograph predates the naming of the dock in 1897. She is at the mineral quay and looks to be loading coal. I'm not sure about the flag as there is some distortion and curtailment of resolution in the printing but I would think she is foreign. Graham
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by riverman » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:38 pm

Possibly Norwegian, Bachke & Co., Trondheim.

From a 1929 Brown's Flags and Funnels, Black funnel, broad red band with white B
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by Malim Sahib » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:29 pm

Looking at the shape of the hull (flat sided) and the position of the lifeboat, I'd say she was of the turret deck design.
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by valeman » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:59 pm

Paul and Jim: Thanks for these suggestions. I think Bachke looks a good bet and I had been thinking for a while that she might be a turret. Graham
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by Bill Harvey » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:16 pm

Scouring the WSS Doxford Turret book in the period suggested and the B on the funnel, and moreso clutching at straws, could it possiblby be the DICIEMBRE owned by Compania Bilbaina de Navigacion under Spanish flag?


DICIEMBRE
O.N. ? 3,482gt, 2,490nt 340.0 x 45.1 x 26.9 feet
T 3 cyl by the shipbuilder
17.9.1895 launched, 10.1895 completed by Wm. Doxford & Sons, Sunderland Yard No. 238 as DICIEMBRE for Compania Bilbaina de Navigacion, Spain. 1898 transferred to Aznar & Cia, Spain. 1903 returned to Compania Bilbaina de Navigacion (E. Aznar y Tutor), Spain. 1907 manager became N. de Mendialdua. 1909 management transferred to Juan Urizar. 1916 manager S. Innerarity. 1918 sold to Cia. de Nav. Begona (J.M. Urquijo & Co.), Spain renamed BEGONA No. 4. 1927 sold to Naviera Basconia Sociedad Ltd., Spain renamed NUESTRA SENORA DEL CARMEN. 1929 sold to Jose Guitierrez. 1931 manager J. Bernaldo de Quiros. 1935 sold to Cia. Del Vapor Carmen S.L., Spain. 27.1.1963 wrecked off Vallcarca when inward bound from Gijon and Barcelona.

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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by Colin Campbell » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:35 pm

Showed your photo to George Gardner who also thought she could be a turret and suggested the funnel might be AB of Axel Brostrom of Sweden remarking that they did own several turrets. Search came up with
names such as Nordland,Osterland,Hogland,Roland,Vesterland Inland,Nyland and Atland.

Later learned firm of Bilmier didnt start up until 1930s so outwith date

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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by riverman » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:19 pm

Possible Brostrom horizontal red bands with white AB as mentioned in previous post.

Similar S/S INLAND
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SS INLAND.jpg
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by yorkieman » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:26 am

Looks like a good lead Paul, although the 'B' does seem to be central on the funnel, but could be just the angle of view from the stern.
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by valeman » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:34 pm

Thanks to everyone who has helped here. At the very least it is narrowed to a few possibilities. Graham
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by SpenceB » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:50 pm

I'm fairly sure that Valeman's photo is of a two-funnelled ship but can't find anything to fit the bill in the Ships in Focus Record feature on these ships. The crosstrees are unusual,too.
Maybe this will open up another line of enquiry!

Iain

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Colin Campbell
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by Colin Campbell » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:05 pm

On the subject of the crosstrees....look at the photos of Garryvale and Galavale in the Andrew Crawford piece in Clyde Shipowners elsewhere on this site and both turret ships built by Doxford have these upward pointed crosstrees.

See what you mean about two funnels but think this is only brilliant Glasgow sunshine glistening on the side of the funnel creating that effect

A Brostrom funnel mark had the AB joined together The downward stroke of the B was the right hand side of the A if you follow me

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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by valeman » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:05 pm

Many thanks again for everyone who has helped here. This response is overwhelmingly excellent. Graham
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Colin Campbell
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Re: Any ideas on this ship's identity?

Post by Colin Campbell » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:12 am

A bit late, but was thinking of reducing the number of older books I have and Merchant Ships of the World 1910-1929 by Laurence Dunn was in the pile and ,as you do ;I had another look through and this page opened up and I thought of this correspondence Colin
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Atland.jpg
ss Atland Axel Brostrom & Son

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