Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

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Colin Campbell
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Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by Colin Campbell » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:09 pm

Notice BBC 2 tonight 9pm. Documentary on ill fated convoy to Russia.

Clyde Shipping Company RATHLIN one of rescue ships that survived that and many other Russian and Atlantic convoys
Colin
297155 Rathlin.jpg
Bobby Sinclair view of RATHLIN
TGSE01427_m Lairdscraig.jpg
LAIRDSCRAIG ex Rathlin

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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by yorkieman » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:09 pm

Let's hope the presenter (not one of my favourites) has dealt with it well.
George Robinson
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Angus Mac Kinnon
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George : Convoy PQ 17 on BBC 2 last night

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:39 am

Morning, George. I have to admit I share your views on the merits or otherwise of Jeremy Clarkson. He comes across as a bit of an arrogant egotistical character in his own programme, which I never watch now - just because of him. However,
I give him maximum points and credit for how he handled the PQ 17 story, I thought it was done as good as anyone could have delivered that very tragic event of WWII

Wonder if you agree and were equally surprised at this insight and 'other face of the coin' ?
Angus Mac Kinnon

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davidwat
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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by davidwat » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:25 pm

Hi Angus,

I quite agree with your views on Jeremy Clarkson, and I also agree that he did a surprisingly good job with this issue. As far as I know he has nothing maritime in his background so he probably didn't have any bias to bring to the subject. Credit where credit is due, he handled it pretty well.
david watson

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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by yorkieman » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:33 am

Having now watched it via the recorder, yes I agree, well presented but the wartime footage and the personal stories made the programme.
That vessel he was on had a lot of ice on the foredeck and none elsewhere .... assume some use of a hosepipe!
George Robinson
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Brianh
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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by Brianh » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:55 pm

Clarkson is being accused by the author David Irving of using one of his books as the main basis for the programme. That said the programme was presented in a clear fashion without sensationalism and they had found a good mix of actual participants.

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duncanwilson
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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by duncanwilson » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:53 pm

I enjoyed the programme on Convoy PQ 17. It raised a few questions in my mind which some of you may be able to answer.
Did the surviving ships in the Atlantic or Russian convoys make it back to their home ports safely, where ever that may be?
Were they given an escort even though they were empty having discharged their cargo or did they load up another cargo for the return trip?
Did the Germans attack empty ships returning home knowing that they were empty, but also knowing that they would possibly be used in future convoys to further the war effort?
Look forward to receiving your views on the subject.

Cheers, Duncan.

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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by dougie-coull » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:38 pm

Brianh wrote: they had found a good mix of actual participants.
A few images from a few years back - http://www.dougie-coull-photography.co. ... -Veterans/ - sadly not everyone in the group survived to collect the medal that the UK finally decided to bestow on them.

Thought the programme was excellent, and my friend who sailed in some of these convoys liked it very much. He particularly liked that Clarkson highlighted the situation whereby the sailors were not paid if their vessel was sunk.

He told me that they relied on hand knitted garments such as scarves, gloves, and balaclavas supplied by the ladies of that era. He himself received a pair of gloves with a hand written note saying that it was hoped the gloves would keep him warm - and it was signed by then Queen of Holland.

When news of his note went round his ship an officer approached him and offered a swap - which he declined. Sadly, the gloves and note are no more.

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Brianh
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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by Brianh » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:32 pm

The merchant ships and the escorts which reached Russian ports were formed into convoys for return transits - they were mainly numbered in the QP series.

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Hugh
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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by Hugh » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:59 pm

The first convoy to leave Russia after PQ-17 was QP-14, this included some of the survivors and ships from the ill-fated PQ-17. Unfortunately, three of the PQ-17 ships that made it to port: BELLINGHAM (US), SILVER SWORD(US) and the British tanker GRAY RANGER. were sunk in this return convoy.
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Hugh

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Colin Campbell
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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by Colin Campbell » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:04 pm

There are two World Ship Society books on this subject -

Convoys to Russia 1941 - 1945 Bob Ruegg and Arnold Hague

Convoy Rescue Ships 1940 - 1945 Arnold Hague

"Most ships outward bound from Russia were for obvious resons, in ballast, but where circumstances permitted, the Russians loaded cargo to obtain desperately needed currency. Such cargoes included large quantities of lumber,some ores (principally chrome) apatite, cotton, tobacco etc. Sometimes somewhat unusual items appear. 17 tons badger hair, over 50 tons caviar and a quantity of rags figure in one ships manifest". (Convoys to Russia)

Checking the other book on the RATHLINs war.she would appear to have made 28 voyages as a convoy rescue ship. including six on the Russian run. Canada,Iceland and Gibraltar also appear.
Book states she rescued 634 seafarers from 13 sinkings.

Not bad for a Clyde Shipping Company Irish Sea trader Colin

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Hugh
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Re: Convoy PQ 17 and BBC 2 tonight

Post by Hugh » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:12 pm

Thanks for that Colin.
'RATHLIN' served with distinction throughout the war and her crew had a fair share of honours. If it would be of interest to members, I can post the awards to members of the crew for the war years?

Regards
Hugh

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